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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1625
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Posted - 2012.07.16 23:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:The scout alts were required to win. The scout alts were required.
Could the scout alts have been simply "scouts"? That is, could the role have been filled by another player?
If the advantage comes from having higher numbers, are Goonswarm and TEST Alliance "pay to win" because they have more friends than you? Is recruiting my friends into the game also, "pay to win"?
EpicFailTroll wrote:I have copied and pasted it several times already.
If you cut and paste an argument, you are falling into the trap of "argument by repetition". Repeating your statements over and over again doesn't make your argument any more true: it just emphasises the fact that you have no argument.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1625
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 23:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
DrSmegma wrote:The last straw: Changing the definition of P2W to something ridiculous. 
Could you enlighten the entire MMO community, oh wise Smegma, with your correct definition of "Pay To Win"?
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1625
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 23:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:- Numbers is payment, since you pay to buy and fund accounts (more often than not, easier than plexing).
- The more players with alts, the more numbers on that side (obviously, but you don't seem to get it)
The more players you have on one side, the more players you have on one side.
So what you're saying is that having friends is Pay-To-Win.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1625
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 23:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:It's what has to be done with Tippia. He just pretends you haven't answered, when you have, and asks the same question again. This is pretty sad.
What you need to do is only ask one question. Tippia will only answer the fragment of your post that Tippia is interested in answering. Arguing with Tippia is like trying to empty the ocean with a bucket.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1625
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 23:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:I'm saying that ALTS are P2W, because you don't have to micro them to get very significant advantage.
All you're saying is that people who have more than one account are "winning" by your definition of "winning", and that since they paid for those accounts, they're "paying to win".
What everyone else is saying is that they think "Pay To Win" implies something else, usually something about game design and item stores and power items.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1632
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 00:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:The advantage is more isk for the richer dude. In the end, Warren Buffett wins.
Hence, P2W.
So stop whining and figure out how to make ISK rather than losing it? Check out the Making ISK guide.
This is EVE Online after all, and we can invoke Objectivism to explain why poor people are poor :P
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1632
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 00:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:Wait I got better
P2W mostly happens in F2P games, right?
So P2W could be considered as the subscription fee of F2P games
EvE is F2P since you can do 500m isk in 10 mn
So when you pay your subscription fees in EvE, through isk, you're basically Paying2W, since the subscription fees of F2P games are the P2W fees?
Did I get my logic gates correct, and linked random stuff to pretend I'm right? Do I belong amongst your kind?
You could start trying to define what it means to "pay to win". Then support that definition with examples, and test (or challenge) the definition with counter-examples. But then that might end up with a resolution to this discussion, and that wouldn't look good on your trolling record would it? 
You're doing well, keep it up!
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1640
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 06:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:There are no ingame means for the alt-less solo player to have the same convenience as the alt-funding solo player. This is a lack of ingame options relating to a metagaming problem, that you very conveniently ignore.
Except by making friends, a fact that you explain away by saying that it's not convenient.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1640
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 07:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:So yes, there are quite a few cases when it's not convenient, or even not available at all. Why should the player who flies solo be at a severe disadvantage vs the player who flies with alts?
Why should the player who refuses to fly anything larger than a frigate be at a severe disadvantage compared to the player who flies a cruiser? Isn't that paying to win?
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1641
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 08:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:Those are ingame related issues, around which gameplay is balanced, in an ongoing work in progress.
Alts are a purely metagaming issue. Do you see the difference?
No I don't. In one case, a person has chosen to play an MMO solo and not make friends. In the other case, a person has chosen not to use all the facilities of the game to their advantage. In an MMO, having more friends is like having a bigger ship. Each friend you have increases the potential strength of any fleet you fly in.
Claiming that an MMO player having alts is "Pay to Win" but accepting having friends as "part of the game" is hypocritical.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1641
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 08:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:Now, if I want to go against him while not asking for help from friends, because it would feel lame, I have no options but to get alts myself, I'm kinda forced into it.
Your decision to not take a fleet adequate to the task is your decision. That the other player you don't like beat the snot out of you doesn't mean they are "paying to win".
EpicFailTroll wrote:However, I'm really starting to think that alts are F2P. Don't dwell on my musings.
It would really help if you sat down and tried to write a definition of "Pay to Win" which meant something :)
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